Hydrogen Drinking Water 5.0+

Updated October 15, 2017

There is considerable scientific evidence that molecular hydrogen has many health benefits. Check out this presentation by Tyler LeBaron (Founder of the Molecular Hydrogen Foundation):



I am currently consuming molecular hydrogen infused drinking water everyday as part of my PieEconomics diet.

Stores do not carry this type of drinking water because the infused hydrogen molecules escape from the surrounding water molecules within a day or so, even if the storage container is tightly sealed.

Simple DIY instructions achieving high H2 concentrations using low cost off-the-shelf materials:

List Of Materials:

One set of five Magnesium Element Metal Rods Ingot High Purity 4N 99.99% - 5" long x 5/8" diameter.
Ebay, $22.50 with free shipping. (You won't have to reorder for several years.)

Malic Acid 1 Lb Pack FCC/ USP/ Food Grade. Ebay, $9.00 with free shipping.

Measuring Spoon (oval shaped): 1/4 teaspoon or 1 gram; perhaps from a set like this:
Stainless Steel Mini Measuring Spoons. Amazon, $4.98 with free shipping on eligible orders.

Test Tube with Cork Stopper. Combine as a single order from Lake Charles Mfg.:

Test Tubes, 20x150mm, Borosilicate Glass, Round Btm. You only need one but they come in a Pack of 10 (minimum quantity orderable) for $1.72 total plus shipping.

Cork Stoppers, size 7, quality XX (good). They can be ordered singly, but they are cheap so order 5 of them to experiment with: 5 @ $ 0.18 = $ 0.90 plus shipping.

Shipping can be combined on the Test Tubes and the Stoppers. Subtotal Test Tubes plus Stoppers = $2.62. Shipping to my location was $3.24, so I paid $5.86 total.

2mm Surgical Steel Piercing Needle. Ebay, US 76 cents with free shipping from Hong Kong.

Hack Saw, 6 inch. Home Depot, $3.97 w/ free pickup.

Straw, 12 inch long, perhaps part of this pair:
Milkshake Straws, Extra-long Stainless Steel, 12 Inches Long. Amazon, $4.19 with free shipping.

Powerade plastic bottle, 20 oz., empty, less than $2. The 32 oz. size also works (see comment section below) but I prefer to drink the entire contents at one time which the 20 oz. size is better suited for.

Filtered Water, refrigerated.

Directions:

The basic design is that a vented stoppered test tube is placed inside a plastic water bottle. A chemical reaction that takes place inside the test tube vents gas which, together with the pressure created, infuses the bottle's drinking water with hydrogen. The reactants remain inside the test tube while brewing, after which they are disposed of except for the magnesium rod which is retrieved for later reuse.

Preparing a magnesium rod:

Saw one of the magnesium rods in half using the junior hacksaw.
Caution: Search Google for precautions in sawing magnesium rods and in handling the dust.

Preparing the cork:

The cork stopper needs to allow for proper venting of the hydrogen gas from the test tube, while at the same time not letting any of the water surrounding outside the test tube in. Let's read how cork quality affects venting, from the website of a company that sells higher quality cork: "Cork Stoppers manufactured from 100% natural cork harvested in Portugal. The quality of the Cork Stoppers is measured by the lenticels (small crevices that occur in all natural cork). The fewer the lenticels, the higher the grade of cork... If sealing dry goods and solids (sand or salt, for example), a XXX Standard Grade will do the job. If sealing liquids where more secure seal is important, we recommend XXXX Premium Grade."

For our application the lower quality cork is appropriate, since it is desirable for bubbles to escape the test tube by working their way through irregularities in the cork. The lower XX quality cork we are using (note that all qualities are food grade) allows for venting while higher quality cork might not.

The irregularities in cork sometimes tend to reseal. That is the nature of cork. The hollow piercing needle should help the pressure between the test tube and the bottle stabilize more quickly. Push the needle vertically into the top of the cork, with the sharp side slightly protruding the bottom of the cork. Retract the needle slightly so that the sharp tip is slightly recessed for safety reasons. The dull side will protrude from the top of the cork by about an inch (the needle is 2 inches in length). Use an ordinary pin to push out any pieces of cork that may be stuck inside the piercing needle.

Preliminary bottle preparation:

Fill the bottle with refrigerated filtered water near full, and pour off about a half cup into a drinking glass. Place the open bottle and the drinking glass next to the sink.

Preparing the test tube:

Put approximately one gram or one-quarter teaspoon of malic acid powder into the test tube. Tip the test tube and slowly slide a half size magnesium rod down the side of the test tube. If the rod is narrow due to months of use, place the widest/ dullest side facing down, to reduce chance of test tube breakage.

Hold the test tube in one hand, and with your other hand carefully pour a small amount of water from the drinking glass into the test tube, so that the liquid level is about an inch lower than the top of the test tube. I used to use a funnel, but with a little practice it is easier not to. If you pour too much water into the test tube quickly pour some off into the sink. The malic acid by-product, magnesium malate, leaves a very slight sour taste in the drinking water, indicating that some of the product of the chemical reaction escapes as vapor together with the hydrogen gas.

Stopper the test tube with the vented cork. Twist the stopper gently (to reduce chance of test tube breakage) but firmly until approximately half of the cork is inside the test tube. When new, the cork won't go in as far as it will after numerous brews.

Finishing with the bottle:

Once the test tube has been prepared you must act quickly so you don't waste too much of the hydrogen gas that is now escaping. Holding the bottle at approximately a 45 degree angle over the sink, tilt the stoppered test tube allowing it to gently slide all the way down along the bottle's inner wall. Place the open bottle next to the sink and fill the bottle up the rest of the way with water from the drinking glass. The water should have a convex surface. As you tightly screw on the cap there should be a slight overflow. Place the bottle into the freezer until traces of ice are just starting to form. For my freezer I currently use 32 minutes. Definitely use a kitchen timer or a free online timer. Caution: Do not go much past thirty minutes in the freezer, or the bottle may become permanently damaged.

After removing the bottle from the freezer, wait 20 minutes  before opening it. Use that 20 minutes for agitation, which also speeds up hydrogen production and melting of ice crystals. If you agitate the bottle by hand, shake the bottle vigorously side-to-side periodically during the 20 minutes with sustained agitation during at least the final thirty seconds. I use as an agitator a Dental Lab Vibrator, Ebay, $39.99 including shipping. I stabilize the bottle on the platform using two belts, and this lets me run the machine unattended (while nearby). The belts go under the machine and over the top of the bottle. The machine has four rubber feet. Lay the two belts under the machine so that the first belt passes under the left back foot and under the right front foot, and the second belt passes under the right back foot and under the left front foot. Using cloth belts of the type that have two metal rings make tightening the belts easier. Tie a string around the circumference of the bottle (about 3 inches up from the bottom of the bottle) to hold the belts in place against the bottle. A thick shoelace works well for this purpose, securing using a single knot and then a bow. Now, if you place the machine on an empty upside-down cardboard shipping box (perhaps the box the machine was shipped in), the machine while turned on tilts very slightly in numerous directions, greatly magnifying the vibration. Vibrate it at about 50% of top speed (just enough speed that the test tube begins moving around but not enough speed to cause test tube breakage), for 20 minutes. The jostling test tube acts like a magnetic stirrer.

Do not open the bottle until you are ready to drink it. After opening the bottle (I use a washcloth to get a good grip) do not try to capture and breathe the escaping hydrogen gas. Some of the magnesium compound by-product vaporizes and mixes in with the hydrogen gas escaping from the test tube, so what escapes upon opening the bottle can be somewhat caustic* if collected and breathed.

*I don't mix lime (or lemon) juice in with the drinking water in the bottle, since that seems to amplify that effect.

Very rarely will the test tube have broken while in the bottle. This most likely would be a result of not having followed the precautions mentioned above. Caution: Upon opening the bottle, inspect the test tube carefully and if there are any signs of breakage, do not drink the bottle's water. If you are inexperienced, consider pouring the bottle's contents into a drinking container, catching the test tube with your hand, to better inspect for breakage before drinking. Care also needs to be taken not to drop the test tube when handling it outside the bottle.

I find that using a straw works well for quickly drinking the hydrogen water from the bottle. My 8 inch glass straw is too short, so I recommend the 12 inch long food grade stainless steel milkshake straw, that has the added advantage of being unbreakable.

After you have finished drinking, carefully tip the bottle until the test tube slides out. Rinse all items, including the magnesium rod. After quickly rinsing the rod with water, shake off the excess water and then let it air dry. Do not delay removing, rinsing and drying the magnesium rod; you need to stop the chemical reaction as soon as possible to preserve the rod for future use.

Hydrogen Concentration:

The four factors affecting hydrogen concentration (as distinguished from hydrogen production) are: Pressure (more is better), Temperature (near freezing is best), Agitation (minimum of 30 seconds), and Quantity of Hydrogen Gas (beyond some minimum amount, only helps to the extent that it is needed to: 1. increase pressure, and 2. increase the size of the hydrogen gas pocket aiding effectiveness of agitation).

The plastic bottle expands nicely making room for a good amount of hydrogen gas to collect below the cap while also allowing lots of pressure to build up. It was using plastic bottles that two scientists separately verified achieving 5 ppm (parts per million) or more of hydrogen concentration.

The first scientist, who comments using the name Hip, performed shaking and vibration testing using a plastic bottle, and stated: "when you don't shake the bottle, you only get 1 ppm concentration (even though the internal pressure in the bottle is 6 atmospheres); but after just 30 seconds of vigorous shaking, you get 5 ppm."

In an earlier post he stated: "In terms of whether increased shaking and agitation of the water in the bottle produces higher concentrations of dissolved hydrogen, I can confirm that it definitely does. I have an electric muscle massager device (called a Thumper®) which, produces strong mechanical vibrations. I used this Thumper massager to vigorously agitate for 15 minutes the water in my 1.5 liter bottle... When I then tested the H2 concentration of the water after this vigorous agitation, it was 7.7 ppm."

The second scientist, who uses the name PH2W in the comments below, emailed: "I was able to replicate Hip's method using a plastic soda bottle, but with using your glass test tubes and corks, achieving 5+ ppm of H2 verified by using the H2Blue drops..." (Note: The H2Blue method of measuring the ppm concentration of H2 in water is explained in Glen Ingram's video, below.) ... "So far I have not found a difference in concentration between shaking by hand for 30 seconds and any amount of time on the dental vibrator; I am still running more tests on this particular variable to be sure but so far there has been no difference. I know Hip had a noticeable difference in his concentration, but I'm curious if it is due to one of two different possibilities: 1. It made a difference since he uses plastic or 2. It was only a transient concentration difference due to restarting the reaction with the intense shaking but not actually dissolving more hydrogen." Note that PH2W now uses and does testing with a metal bottle (see below) so that may very well explain why he is not seeing higher hydrogen concentrations using the vibrator. There is less bottle expansion with a metal bottle, allowing less of a hydrogen pocket to form and perhaps limiting hydrogen infusion whichever method of agitation is used.

PH2W makes a good point about transient concentration. Hydrogen bubbles move toward and collect at the top, so if H2Blue testing is done using the topmost part of the water, it will register much higher hydrogen concentration than what would be measured using the vast majority of the water in the bottle. To get a more accurate reading, PH2W now pours out most of the water, waits two hours, and then tests the water remaining in the very bottom of the bottle. Since hydrogen infused in water has a half life of two hours, he takes the reading and doubles it. This results in a very conservative reading, such that PH2W's value of 3.4 ppm using a metal bottle may actually be on par with his value of 5+ ppm that he earlier measured using the plastic bottle that may have included transient hydrogen.

Are plastic bottles food grade?

Powerade bottles are comprised of PET (or PETE) plastic, which is generally considered safe.

It was PH2W, however, who brought to my attention some lingering concerns about its safety based on these studies:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3222987/
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs11356-009-0107-7
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2854718/?tool=pmcentrez

As a result, I experimented with using a food grade stainless steel bottle, although I have gone back to using the plastic Powerade bottle as described above, as of early May, 2017.

Previous method (March 2017 thru May 2017) -- Using a stainless steel bottle:

This method substitutes the following items for the Powerade bottle listed above:

Klean Kanteen stainless steel water bottle, 27 ounce single walled. Ebay, $12.37 with free shipping. (At least $5 more if you want one without a painted exterior design.)

Klean Kanteen classic all stainless steel loop cap, Amazon, $9.10 with free shipping on eligible orders.
(Avoid purchasing the Klean Kanteen Flip Loc Cap, which is not screw on and does not seal as well.)

Rubber Bands (2): Wide, like the type used for bunching broccoli.

The directions are similar to when using the plastic bottle, with these differences:

The plastic cap that comes with the Klean Kanteen bottle is useless for our purpose since it is hollow and unavoidably traps a large pocket of air upon closing. The metal cap has a solid bottom surface that protrudes well into the bottle, leaving no air pocket.

To aid in gripping the bottle and cap, put one wide rubber band around the cap and the other wide rubber band around the wide part of the bottle. These rubber bands do not have to be removed between brews.

Capping the bottle: grip the bottle and the cap where the rubber bands are (gripping the cap's rubber band using a wash cloth provides even greater leverage). Screw on the cap as tightly as you can in one motion (do not repeat). Place a small sock over the top and extend it down the body of the bottle at least past the bottle's rubber band. This tethers the cap in case it pops out. Keep your face away from the opening of a pressurized metal bottle; an untethered cap can hit the ceiling.

Unlike when using a plastic bottle, the cork usually comes off the test tube too early, spilling reactants into the drinking water. If this were to happen when using the plastic bottle drink the water in the bottle anyway since it is beneficial to do so (see below) and you won't notice any side effects from only occasionally drinking some of the magnesium byproduct.

Unlike when using plastic bottles, stainless steel bottles don't allow for much bottle expansion. The hydrogen gas has to go somewhere, so when the metal bottle is filled up all the way with water leaving no air pocket, space for the gas initially comes from compression of the water. Liquids, however, can't be compressed very much, so the gas will push out any concave portion of the bottle so that it becomes convex. The bottom of my Klean Kanteen bottle is concave, but hydrogen production makes the bottom convex, causing the bottle to tilt slightly (although not fall over). This allows a larger hydrogen gas pocket to form at the top. When I eventually take off the top, the bottom immediately retracts back into its original concave position (sometimes it needs a nudge).

Regarding the stainless steel bottle, PH2W emailed: "...all in all I am very excited about having 3.4 ppm produced with all food grade products in stainless steel, especially with still having the potential to increase that concentration." (Note: While the magnesium rods are 99.99% pure, and any impurities would mostly be confined to the water in the test tube, they have not been certified as food grade.)

My metal bottle became damaged:

If you accidentally create too much pressure, the bottom of the bottle will become more convex than usual, and you won't be able to get it to retract. This can be caused by:

1. Keeping the bottle in the freezer for more than 30 minutes- Ice begins to form, greatly increasing pressure.

2. Shaking the bottle well beyond 30 seconds.

3. After removing from freezer and shaking, not opening the bottle for hours.

4. Using more than approximately one gram or one-quarter teaspoon of malic acid powder.

If this happens to your bottle, bottle expansion which had relieved some of the pressure can no longer occur for future brews. All DIY projects are done at one's own risk, and this especially applies when using high pressure. Instead of replacing my bottle, I decided at the time to continue using it for these reasons:

1. Increasing the pressure proportionally increases hydrogen concentration.

2. As a result of accidentally damaging my bottle I now knew the limits of using stainless steel bottles, and what most likely happens should they fail. What happened is that I left the bottle in the freezer for more than 30 minutes, and the cap pushed out of the bottle by about a half inch, embedded in ice. On my next brew using this permanently expanded bottle, during shaking the cap shot straight up. Fortunately I was not hit, but the cap hit the ceiling. That's when I decided to use a sock as a tether. What I have learned is that pressurizing the bottle beyond its limits most likely does not result in the bottle rupturing, but in the cap shooting out sliding past the groves.

An added problem was the difficulty in opening a metal bottle after it has been in the freezer. I eventually decided to always let ice push out the cap (if the cap had not already popped out on its own), by leaving the bottle in the freezer for up to an additional two hours. 

PH2W's latest emails indicated that after many different setups using a metal bottle his testing has not exceeded 3.4 ppm concentration. I have weighed the difficulties using a metal bottle along with the inability to increase hydrogen concentration using metal, with the lingering concerns of using plastic, and have decided to go back to using the plastic bottle. Not only is PET (or PETE) plastic generally considered safe, but the water is only in the bottle for 52 minutes. Contrast this with store bought beverages which are typically in the bottle for weeks or months. I believe the test tube method is optimized using a plastic bottle.

Original Method (October 2016 thru December 2016) -- Using a glass bottle with a flip top cap, and no test tube:

Glen Ingram demonstrated this simple method:



I originally titled this blog page Hydrogen Drinking Water 3.0 because according to Glen, these brewing parameters have been consistently producing 3.0+ parts per million (ppm) of molecular hydrogen concentration in water. That is five times the concentration of the best water ionizing machines, which max out at 0.6 ppm molecular hydrogen when producing 9.5 pH water. I discontinued using this method for these reasons:

1. Laxative effect and impurities:

With this method the brewing bottle is the reactor, and the water in the reactor contains residue from the magnesium and malic acid, as well as magnesium malate and magnesium hydroxide byproducts, all of which you end up drinking along with the hydrogen infused water.

First the good news-- these residues are generally good for you:
Magnesium is a mineral that's crucial to the body's function.
Malic acid is a component of almost all fruits, and is beneficial to ingest.
Magnesium malate tops the list of recommendations for easing pain and fatigue, especially for those with fibromyalgia.

As for the residue of magnesium hydroxide, commonly known as milk of magnesia, in sufficient quantities it can act as an antacid and laxative, as do most magnesium related compounds.

It turns out that coconut oil is an important part of my PieEconomics diet, and consuming too much coconut oil has the same adverse effects as consuming too much magnesium. I've already reached my daily tolerable limit of one-quarter teaspoon of coconut oil, so adding magnesium to the amounts already in the vegetables I eat is probably not a good idea.

What about the purity rating of 4N 99.99% for the magnesium rods manufactured in Hong Kong by MGA? Here is what Glen, who uses this brand, reported: "I had one of my brews tested by a lab several months ago to satisfy myself that there were no heavy metals in the rods I was using and they came out fine...no lead or other bad stuff at all." Having your own testing done is a good idea, as the rods, as mentioned earlier, have not been certified as food grade.

Exposing drinking water to four full size magnesium rods and byproducts is much more severe than the half magnesium rod and byproducts which are largely contained using the test tube method. Any of the small amount of magnesium malate that vaporizes from the test tube into the drinking water I am actually grateful for.

2. The concentration of hydrogen is limited to 3 ppm, since using glass pop bottles automatically leak some of the contents when the pressure builds up too much, to prevent glass from shattering.

3. The water needs to be boiled to accelerate hydrogen production. The reactants are not concentrated together as they are when confined to a test tube, where hydrogen production is vigorous even in chilled water.

4. Total brewing time is 3+ hours instead of the shorter 52 minutes using the test tube method. Water which starts out boiling takes much longer to cool. Hydrogen concentration (as distinguished from hydrogen production) increases in proportion to the coldness of water, and is optimal with water that is near freezing.

5. Even accounting for the tube, less water is displaced using the test tube method, leaving more water for drinking.

Brown's Gas- contains hydrogen gas as a by-product:

At least one employer and perhaps some bars offer brown's gas infused water (which contains hydrogen gas as a by-product) for immediate consumption by their employees/ patrons. Here is a $19,000 device that dispenses such water:



This device starts with water, and with the use of electricity and catalysts outputs Brown's gas (also called HHO) which is an electrified form of water that has many interesting uses. The primary use is as a pollution-free fuel, whose only exhaust is water. This same gas that can be used to fuel energy saving devices for motor vehicles, and to fuel torches, can after filtering be used to benefit one's heath in three ways: (1) surrounding a part of the body with it to treat conditions such as carpal tunnel syndrome, (2) infusing it into drinking water, or (3) inhaling it.

I first found out about the health benefits of molecular hydrogen from George Wiseman. When I was writing articles on water cavitation, I became familiar with his company, Eagle-Research.

George believes it is not just the hydrogen gas by-product, but also the HHO molecules themselves that provide a health benefit. He displays studies showing growth in plants and in fish using HHO (with H2) infused water vs. non-infused water, but we also have to compare these with plants and fish using H2 only infused water.

The brown's gas (including hydrogen gas by-product) can be bubbled through drinking water to produce hydrogen infused water within about ten minutes. Unfortunately, the vessel cannot be easily pressurized, so maximum hydrogen concentration in the drinking water is limited to only about 1.57 ppm.





The gas (which can easily be adapted for use as an HHO torch) can be emitted at a slower rate, allowing safe inhalation of hydrogen diluted with air. There are added benefits to getting the hydrogen via drinking water rather than by breathing it, however, as explained by Hip:

"One thing that breathing H2 gas cannot do, but hydrogen rich water does do, is induce ghrelin release. Ghrelin has mood boosting, antidepressant properties, as well as cognitive enhancing and neuroprotective effects, and I think ghrelin release is most likely responsible for the mood boost that I experience within an hour or two of drinking 500 ml of 5 ppm hydrogen rich water."
-----

Check with your physician to see if these types of hydrogen infused waters are OK for you to drink.

I am a novice so please do your own research.

29 comments:

  1. Hi David,
    Wondering how your hydrogen water project is going?
    I'm ready to order and get going with Glen's method or yours.
    Thanks

    ReplyDelete
  2. Hi David,

    Thank you so much for this blog. I've been reading the thread over at Longecity, but this compiles everything so nicely. Really appreciate it. A couple of questions- for one thing, the ebay link you have above for the metal rods is no longer good. Do you think its okay to get any of the rods with the very same specs as the ones you listed, from ebay?

    Also, I can't seem to find the empty plastic bottle you've mentioned. Could I just buy a soda, in a plastic bottle, same size and empty it out to use it for this? Also, did it turn out that the vibrating machine was worth getting?

    Thanks again!

    Cheers,

    Sally

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Do an Ebay search for the magnesium, listing the specs. The Ebay seller is xeatx, and in the item listing, under shipping, look for: “Item location: MGA Warehouse, Hong Kong”. Glen did his water testing when using rods from this supplier. Individual 20 oz. bottles of Powerade can be found in the refrigerated case near the checkout at most grocery and convenience stores. Regular soda bottles don't work since they have too narrow a neck for the test tube to pass through. I've updated my blog regarding the Dental Lab Vibrator, which does appear useful (although not essential).

      Delete
  3. Hi there, thanks so much for the great info on your site. I am going to try the Hydrogen Drinking water 5.0, but being slightly lazy -I found these larger test tubes so I don't need to cut the 5" magnesium sticks I already ordered
    https://www.indigo.com/glassware/test_tubes/giant-tube-glass-test-tubes-38x200mm-55912R.html
    which could allow me to use a larger bottle to make more (or potentially create a stronger solution using 20 oz bottles)
    Now I'm searching for a good medical grade silicone large water bottle instead of a regular plastic bottle...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Water bottles (sold as reusable), although leak proof, are not designed to contain pressure. It took about 15 minutes to saw through the magnesium rod using the mini hacksaw, supporting it against the rim of a soup bowl. You do have to keep your magnesium rods (and especially the magensium dust from sawing) away from flame. My sawing produced no sparks. This YouTube shows how campers scrape flint (not magnesium) to light magnesium dust that they scraped: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ_LrBafzNY

      Delete
  4. ah, ok thanks. Hmm, that is too bad as I thought the silicone bottles might be "stretchy" enough to support an increase in pressure. The plastic bottles you use are the Powerade bottles, correct? I see there is some ribbing in the design, does it look like that allows the bottle to expand, or will any old plastic bottle do?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's the top including spout for those silicone water bottles that doesn’t handle pressure well. Any PETE plastic bottle (sold with a beverage already in it) with a screw on cap is OK, so long as the neck is wide enough for the test tube to pass into and out of easily. It also needs to be tall enough for the test tube and cork. If you want a longer test tube get the 25 x 200 which with a taller 22.5 oz. bottle will work height-wise, and may just fit width-wise. The 38 x 200 you mentioned earlier is definitely too wide. Why not buy both the 20 x 150 and 25 x 200 glass test tubes with their appropriate cork stoppers? All together it comes to less than $10 including shipping from Lake Charles Manufacturing.

      Delete
  5. Hi David: Thank you, first off, for your comprehensive outline and detailed blog. It is very informative. My dilemma is that I unfortunately bought the 4 in. Magnesium rods instead of the 5 in. and the 4 in. are 7/8 mm. in diameter vs the 5/8 mm diameter of the 5 in. To try Glen's method I'm having a hard time finding swing top bottles that will fit the wider rods. Thus, your method with the test tube and the POWERADE wide mouthed bottle sounds like the ticket. Do you know if the size of test tube you recommend (25 x 200) would fit the 4 in. rod @ 7/8 mm in rod diameter?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, your 18 mm x 100 mm rod (which is how the 4 inch rods are listed) fits the 25 x 200 test tube. To calculate the inside diameter of the test tube subtract 4 mm from the 25 mm outside diameter, which comes to 21 mm, which leaves enough room for your 18 mm diameter magnesium rod. The 200 mm length of the test tube, and adding the cork, will be too long for a Powerade bottle, so try a taller 22.5 oz. Tropical Fantasy juice bottle instead.

      Delete
  6. Hi David, aside from the klean kanteen bottle going convex, do you notice any other signs of pressure such as water ejection upon opening, or cork ejection from test tubes after opening? Have you had any issues with using the dental lab vibrator with the stainless steel and the glass test tubes in terms of breakage? How long do you typically run the vibrator for now? Per my e-mail, I've verified 2 ppm with the stainless steel method, with the swing loc cap and coconut oil, and have created an immense amount of pressure, but just havent been able to dissolve as much as the hydrogen as I'd like. As I said I'll be experimenting with some other tweaks, including the different caps with balloon method, but ultimately I believe the problem is mainly lying with the dissolution and not the retained pressure or gas formation in the steel bottle. Also, are you allowing for an air pocket in your latest tests with the balloon or not? Thanks, hopefully soon I'll be able to verify everything we're doing concentration wise, and then we can be sure we're consuming the highest ppm, with the least side effects, and using the safest container.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Thanks for your emails regarding your H2Blue testing. I have updated and will continue to update this blog to integrate your methods and results.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Hello - thanks for the great post! Wondering about using room temperature vs. boiling water -- does it matter?

    ReplyDelete
  9. I've updated my blog to explain why, when using the test tube in a bottle method, you should start with chilled water rather than either boiling or room temperature water.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Okay one more question: When using the test-tube method, is there a point at which the production of H2 comes to an end, simply because the amount of water available within the test-tube is limited?

    ReplyDelete
  11. The main reaction, between magnesium and malic acid (Mg + C4H6O5 -> C4H4MgO5 + H2), does not use any of the water at all. The reactions between magnesium and water (Mg + H2O -> Mg(OH)2 + H2) and (Mg + H2O -> MgO + H2) are much slower. So, H2 production is rapid until the malic acid is used up, and then continues very slowly throughout the remaining brew time consuming only minuscule amounts of water.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Thank you all. This information saved me from running out and buying an expensive ionizer machine. Does anyone have info on simply using the Molecular Hydrogen tablets? I'm a flight attendant and I have to travel light.

    ReplyDelete
  13. seems like you can substitute malic acid for citric one with magnesium citrate as a byproduct instead of magnesium malate, anyone tried?

    Malic acid: Mg + C4H6O5 -> C4H4MgO5 + H2

    Citric acid: Mg + C6H8O7 -> C6H6MgO7 + H2

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Magnesium citrate is sold as a laxative:
      https://www.drugs.com/mtm/magnesium-citrate.html
      In contrast, read this comment about magnesium malate: "I have taken this for years and have found it more vital to pain management and general well-being than any prescribed or over the counter item."
      http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=16575

      Delete
    2. Thank you for your quick reply!
      i get it, citric acid is just easier to find where i live, that's my concern in the first place. I've also got magnesium citrate caps as a supplement and put two and two together.
      Anyway, thanks!

      Delete
  14. Hi! What about using magnesium malate supplements and dissolving it in water?

    I use the magnesium malate supplement from Source Naturals, wondering if I can just dissolve this in water.

    Thanks

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. With any of the supplements (eg: magnesium malate, magnesium citrate, magnesium acetate), the reaction has already occurred, so no hydrogen will be produced.

      Delete
  15. hi David,
    i am going to meet a salesman to show me the portable hydrogen generator tomorrow.
    it is claimed to produce >1000 PPB.

    Do you think it is a functional & practical product?

    thanks in advance

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 1,000 parts per billion is only 1 part per million. The DIY method shown here gets 5 times that concentration and at a much lower cost.

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  16. Hi David,
    Success!!! Thanks for the clear instructions. On the first try, seconds before it was finished, the cork popped off the test tube. I discarded that one. I have been successful ever since. I was wondering if anyone has worked out how much malic acid to put in the 32 oz. Poweraid bottle?

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  17. I would not increase the amount of malic acid with the larger bottle. Instead, slightly increase the time periods in the freezer and for agitation. The larger bottle will take longer for ice to start forming, and for the ice to completely melt.

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  18. Just want to say "thank you". Been doing this for a month already and it's super easy.

    One comment is to perhaps consider using a food grade silicone bottle, I got one off eBay for $5.

    Only issue with that is that I'm concerned that the needle might pierce the silicone when shaking the bottle (despite the needle end that's touching the bottle being the flat side, and not the sharp side).

    But in general, your explanations are SUPER detailed and easy to understand!

    Thank you!!!

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  19. Hello PieEconomics,

    Im a physician, an M.D and wanted to thank you for the detailed instructions, I am now doing your metal bottle method as I am kinda wary of the plastic one for toxicity reasons etc.

    These are my observations so far:
    1) I was wondering if theres another way (instead of the H2blue titration method) of measuring dissolved H2, maybe with an electronic measuring device ?

    2) In order to produce hydrogen water, why not use a metallic hydride? a hydride is the negatively charged ion moiety of Hydrogen, an H- anion which is is commonly combined with sodium as the NaBH4 compound, widely used in chemical industry as a reducing agent (meaning it donates its electron and becomes oxidised itself) in this case releasing pure atomic H (without a net charge) which will of course immediately become molecular H2 bringing the ORP to minus values immediately and profoundly. Only drawback is NaBH4 is expensive but it can last a LONG time, one would need an ORP meter and maybe the H2Blue method too to standardise the procedure and concentrations.

    3) Why not use a medical grade H2 gas container and bubble the gas directly into a drink like a regular Soda and then drink it?

    Best regards and thank you

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  20. SOOO frustrated!!! I've done this twice now. The first time I got a little less than 1 ppm. The water in the bottle hadn't started forming ice crystals, so the second time I used water cooled in the fridge. I got ice forming after about 35 minutes and I agitated it much more often and vigorously. I got less than 0.5 ppm. I'm using the H2 Blue test reagent. I really don't understand what I'm doing wrong, I've followed the instructions to the letter (including where I got the Mg rods and test tube size etc.). Anyone else encounter this problem? Help, I really want this to work!

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  21. Did the pocket of hydrogen gas form at the top? What is its height? I have been relying on the reports of others for the testing, including from two scientists. I welcome the posting of results from anyone who has done testing, whether those results are favorable or not.

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